My Two Cents: Atheists Sue Over WTC cross.
Atheists Sue Over World Trade Center 9/11 Cross: Should Christian Symbol Be Removed?
Yes. Yes it should.
This is a suit that was filed quite a while ago, actually, and news of it has popped up again as things change here and there. Silverman, of American Atheists, posted about it against our thoughts. Here's mine.
I decline to add other articles about this, because some are so dripping with venom against anyone for the suit or separation of Church and State that you'd think everyone with a different point of view was lobbying to sacrifice babies and enslave the poor Christians. I'd laugh if I wasn't choking on the irony.
A: Christian monuments belong in Christian places. This is the site of a tragedy, where many people of multiple faiths lost their lives to the lunacy of another faith. If you want a monument to represent the people who died there and what they died for erect a stone with the names of the dead and an American Flag. They died because a jihadist murderers called "World Islamic Front" claimed "the actions of Americans that they claim conflict with "Allah's order", and stating that the Front's "ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it."" They died because they were American, not even because some were Christian. This isn't a Christian tragedy. It was an American Tragedy and should be represented as such.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#September_11_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat%C4%81w%C4%81_of_Osama_bin_Laden#1998_Fatwa
B: It had to be modified to match the Cross, it was originally kinda cross-like, "Eventually, the girder cross was removed to St. Peter’s Roman Catholic Church on 22 Barclay Street, in Manhattan, exact date unknown. While there, the girder set was further modified and trimmed to look more like the Latin cross of Christian tradition."
http://911memorialcross.blogspot.com/p/background.html
People who claim morality cannot exist without religion are blind:
Morality, noun, origin 1350–1400; Middle English /moralite/. "Goodness". To claim all people without religion are immoral (not good) is as absurd as claiming that infants and toddlers (who cannot know religion) are immoral... You're claiming all the people before the Abrahamic religions were immoral and bad people.. That a person without religion who doesn't lie, cheat, steal, or hurt others without remorse, and lives their life helpful and thoughtful, is immoral. THAT is absurd.
People claiming USA is a Christian Nation, either today or with the Founding Fathers argument, are ignorant of statistics and history.
---Current population (2008): 75% answered Christian (and that includes ALL Christian denominations, even the ones claiming other Christians aren't really Christian...). 4% Other religion/spiritual. 15% No religion specified (atheist, agnostic, humanist, "none", "other none". 5% abstained. USAmerica prides itself on being for everyone, not the majority. If the reverse were true women and minorities would still be property. Aren't you glad it's not true?
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population/religion.html
--Per the founding fathers... sure: some were probably Christian. We don't have a census for them. We do have several written works from some of them which lead historians to state that some of them were deists (non-Christian) or pantheists (everything is God, non-Christian). They pushed for separation of church and state, which would hardly have been done if they all believed in the Church. God is never mentioned in the Constitution. Of the United States, "The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" (see the image on the right). This was not an idle statement meant to satisfy muslims(sic)-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams. "
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html A source to start with, there are more.
Deism: a religious philosophy which holds that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of a creator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
Pantheism: The central ideas found in almost all pantheistic beliefs are the view of the Cosmos as an all-encompassing unity, reverence for the Cosmos, and recognition of the sacredness of the Universe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheist
This is a suit that was filed quite a while ago, actually, and news of it has popped up again as things change here and there. Silverman, of American Atheists, posted about it against our thoughts. Here's mine.
I decline to add other articles about this, because some are so dripping with venom against anyone for the suit or separation of Church and State that you'd think everyone with a different point of view was lobbying to sacrifice babies and enslave the poor Christians. I'd laugh if I wasn't choking on the irony.
A: Christian monuments belong in Christian places. This is the site of a tragedy, where many people of multiple faiths lost their lives to the lunacy of another faith. If you want a monument to represent the people who died there and what they died for erect a stone with the names of the dead and an American Flag. They died because a jihadist murderers called "World Islamic Front" claimed "the actions of Americans that they claim conflict with "Allah's order", and stating that the Front's "ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it."" They died because they were American, not even because some were Christian. This isn't a Christian tragedy. It was an American Tragedy and should be represented as such.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#September_11_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat%C4%81w%C4%81_of_Osama_bin_Laden#1998_Fatwa
http://911memorialcross.blogspot.com/p/background.html
People who claim morality cannot exist without religion are blind:
Morality, noun, origin 1350–1400; Middle English /moralite/. "Goodness". To claim all people without religion are immoral (not good) is as absurd as claiming that infants and toddlers (who cannot know religion) are immoral... You're claiming all the people before the Abrahamic religions were immoral and bad people.. That a person without religion who doesn't lie, cheat, steal, or hurt others without remorse, and lives their life helpful and thoughtful, is immoral. THAT is absurd.
People claiming USA is a Christian Nation, either today or with the Founding Fathers argument, are ignorant of statistics and history.
---Current population (2008): 75% answered Christian (and that includes ALL Christian denominations, even the ones claiming other Christians aren't really Christian...). 4% Other religion/spiritual. 15% No religion specified (atheist, agnostic, humanist, "none", "other none". 5% abstained. USAmerica prides itself on being for everyone, not the majority. If the reverse were true women and minorities would still be property. Aren't you glad it's not true?
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population/religion.html
--Per the founding fathers... sure: some were probably Christian. We don't have a census for them. We do have several written works from some of them which lead historians to state that some of them were deists (non-Christian) or pantheists (everything is God, non-Christian). They pushed for separation of church and state, which would hardly have been done if they all believed in the Church. God is never mentioned in the Constitution. Of the United States, "The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" (see the image on the right). This was not an idle statement meant to satisfy muslims(sic)-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams. "
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html A source to start with, there are more.
Deism: a religious philosophy which holds that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of a creator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
Pantheism: The central ideas found in almost all pantheistic beliefs are the view of the Cosmos as an all-encompassing unity, reverence for the Cosmos, and recognition of the sacredness of the Universe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheist
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